I hope you don't withdraw yourself. It is important that we understand each other, imo.

I think our two "expecteds" are linked.

Liza says it one way, let me try another.

If the only way we define "success" is participation in the corporate world or political world at higher and higher levels of the various ladders, then we have defined a world that is alien to the way most people live and that automatically relegates most of what most of us do to the trashbin.

If we define "success" as getting the 12 years of schooling, then getting the degree, then getting the white-collar job, then getting the promotion, then getting the large house and the large car and then getting our kids into the better school for their 12 years of schooling. . . if that's all there is, why bother?

If the system is set up to bribe everyone every step of the way, and I mean that literally, if ultimately your incentive to do good is swamped by your incentive to stay in office once you "succeed" in playing the game well enough to get elected, if you end up so beholden to lobbyists and donors that you cannot make a simple vote to help your constituents. . . why struggle to reach the top of the political heap?

We need to look more closely at what we think "success" is and live our lives able to move in that direction.

If a better world with a different focus is what we define as "success," then we place less value how corporate America rewards women. We don't necessarily use that as our barometer of how we value ourselves. We choose the paths, and change as we like, that let us be in the world the way we want to be.

I think of an unschooling friend and her daughter. Her daughter has just started her career as some sort of forest ranger/fitness person (JJ, what is the name of Pam's daughter's job?). This girl will never get rich doing any of this. But she is the picture of success!

And being a stay-at-home Mom and homeschooling Mom can be a success story too.

I don't have the sort of income where a divorce is about settlements. I am not headed for a divorce. I don't have savings beyond the house, which we hope to have paid off soon. This is typical for our working class neighborhood. There are no set-asides for the stay-at-home wife. We are happy to pay the mortgage.

And I think we are succeeding. As a family and as individuals. We are attempting to allow our children the freedom to grow up to be proud of themselves even if they don't have the biggest bank account or the most political clout. These may be the standard measures for "success" but we reject much of what is standard including that narrow view.

I hope this is clearer. Probably not. . . but now I have to go walk with another unschooling Mom . . . we are attempting to be a bit more fit. Not to fit into size 2 anything or weigh a certain amount. Just to feel a bit better physically.

Nance