republican campaign ads on culture kitchen media?

Whats with those banner ads on culture kitchen touting the rudy guiliani campaign? I know whatever ad service the site uses sends up ads randomly, but at the same time this means culture kitchen is giving ad time and potentially generating hits for guiliani's campaign web site. It could be raising money for him indirectly and unintentionally. Its not like some pro-rudy folks might not come here uninformed about the site and link to the ad because it takes them to rudy's site. I guess it comes with the territory of web ads, but an uninformed person might see those banner ads saying "join rudy!" and think this site has somehow endorsed him.

I take it these web ad services don't filter their ads so they aren't running advertising content on sites that runs counter to the goals of that site? I mean "join rudy!" ads on culture kitchen is like if a pro-life group ran ads on NARAL's web site or something. Were it my site, I'd prefer to not even run ads if running them means having republican campaigns taking advantage of the ad space. But thats just me...


rwallnerny2007's picture

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Michael Bouldin's picture

It is just you.

Because we have bills to pay. Providing you Hillarybots with a spamming forum costs actual money.

So yeah, if Benito Giuliani wants to waste his money on ads here, whatever. Even if they're served up by Google via their contextual criteria, since this site writes about politics.

God, how I wish som people would do three seconds worth of research before lunging at their keyboard.


rwallnerny2007's picture

But it defeats your purpose

But it defeats your purpose. Do you want to come here each day next year and find out that the RNC is buying mass blocks of ad time on google and flooding your websites with their ads? Not all people who come here know what this site is about, they may see culture kitchen, interesting name and come here. Then they see, before they even see the content, big bold colorful campaign ads for rudy guiliani. They link to his site. They don't know how web ads work and they think culture kitchen is endorsing guiliani. It could happen.

Is making a profit off of this site more important than protecting its message? Google isn't the only web ad generating service out there. Surely there are other services that will have contextual criteria that is not so general as to place ads from the opposition to run all the time. This will hurt the integrity of this site if Liza does not complain to google and look for alternatives to give her ad business. I hope she has.


Michael Bouldin's picture

Dude.

If you want to have a say-so in how this site is run, start sending Liza some checks. Or you can just open your own blog for purity trolls like yourself who don't understand how Google AdSense works.

BTW, if I catch you reposting deleted content again, we're done here. Last warning.


rwallnerny2007's picture

I'm sorry but the ads are offensive

I'm sorry but to me and others I'm sure, seeing republican campaign ads on here is offensive, as offensive as if the ads featured p o r n or babies heads or something. Why can't you understand that if ads offend users, it is worth considering the consequences of running them. Are you saying that you won't question google adsense or complain to them, no matter how offensive the ads get? No matter if they might be generating hits and money to guiliani's web site? If thats the case you guys are selling your souls for money. We are in a political war in this country and you are letting the opposition ads run here and not saying anything. You either want to fight the war or you do not. If those ads solicit one dollar for guiliani's campaign or one vote, from this site, it is horrible and you guys should not stand for it. In my opinion.

Also this entry was categorized under a category for complaints about the web site. This is a valid complain, solicited in the prescribed manner.


Michael Bouldin's picture

Again...

...these ads are served up by an external partner. If you'd like to pay the bills here, and feed Liza's kids, a small sacrifice since we're at war, please contact Liza.

There's a dichotomy here between what the purity trolls want and what people who run sites and need to pay for them need. Most people fluent enough to visit a site like this understand that ads always come from externals; it's how that business runs.


francislholland's picture

I can't believe Michael just said that!

I can't believe Michael Bouldin just said that Culture Kitchen accepts Rudy Giuliani ads "because it pays the bills." Would Mr. Bouldin also join Rudy's campaign staff if the price were right? And they accuse of engaging in the "P" word and the "W" word?!

As usual, the offensiveness of the actual behavior in the "progressive" whitosphere is compounded by the unrepentant hypocrisy with which the behavior is conducted.

I'll tell you one thing: Rudy Giuliani could buy me an all expenses paid trip to China and it wouldn't get him one ad at my blog.

rwallnerny2007, I'm not going to name any names, but there are some in the "progressive" libertarian whitosphere who voted Republican in the past and might do so again at some point in the future. In such a context, where some people's commitment to the Left is weak, situational and recent, not everyone is going to be offended by taking ads for Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, or even George Bush himself. It pays the bills, after all.

With respect to Michael, I think he sometimes forgets that the person whom he is insulting is not the only person reading the comments.

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."

www.francislholland.blogspot.com
francislholland@yahoo.com


mole333's picture

Are you...

Are you offering to pay Liza?

Look, how do these things get paid for: big donors (any volunteers?), pay for use (are you giving?) or ads. You can be all high and mighty about it, but you are being given a free forum to speak...Rudy is in some small way providing you with that forum.

If people like you and Wallner step up to the plate and pay your way to speak out, Liza may not need to depend so much on advertising networks where she has little control over the actual content. But as long as you want a free ride, Liza is not independently wealthy. So if Ann Coulter wants to pay so we can tell the world she is a terrorist advocate and Giuliani wants to pay us so we can tell the world that firefighters hate him and he is not so anti-mob as he claims, why not let them?


Michael Bouldin's picture

Blow me.

One last time: ads served up by external partners. No choice in the matter. No control over content. Bills to pay.

In contrast to your call for the death of Elizabeth Edwards, which was entirely voluntary, one might add.


Margaret Bassett's picture

It was inevitable

There is no free media. Even PBS makes you feel cheap by not anti-ing up. But after going to church, a person can be conditioned. You can pay your fair share and then something comes up, and they put a plate in front of you. I believe adults should remember the power of reason to just say no.
In the case of Google's backing blogs, what's the story? Do they promise fair and balanced?
Another thing to think about is that if "everyone's doing it," blogs are just like TV and radio. Ignore the ads.
There's a deeper question? What is a free press? Or is it just a choice of editorial perspective? Maybe we should start talking about whether Democratic politicians have a right to stay off Fox News.
A little fer instance: Would this blog advertise Ann Coulter? And another little question, if one opens a YouTube with her, does that show her popularity? Coulter is just an example, but surely one we think about.


mole333's picture

Ann Coulter HAS advertised here

Google works this way (and I probably am getting parts wrong):

Advertisers classify their ads a particular way (e.g. sports, politics, etc)

Websites classift their sites a particular way (e.g. sports, politics...)

Google matches ads in a category with websites (sports with sports, politics with politics). As far as I know there is no further screening. Then again I am no expert, but I use Google ads on my newsletter site.

When someone clicks on a Google ad, the person advertising then pays the website some small amount. If you want to see what Rudy or Ann are up to and you click, they pay Liza. There may be other kinds of ads too where simply the presence of the ad pays Liza or ads where only if you buy something does Liza get a cut. But Google ads are usually pay-per-click.

Again, if you don't advertise you are much more limited in the time you can put in. Liza puts far more into this than any of the rest of us do so for her it has to be a business. People like Holland and Wallner who complain could a.) give her some of their time to help with tech stuff, publicity, etc, or b.) pony up and pay Liza some cash so she can have more options. Otherwise how can they complain since they are getting a free ride?


Michael Bouldin's picture

"Ann Coulter HAS advertised here"

I know; I swore like no tomorrow when I saw that. Ugh.

So yeah, stick it to Ann and Rudy - send Liza a check.


Margaret Bassett's picture

That clears up some things

Do you know, mole, if there are blogs which don't deal with Google who deal with someone else, GoogleLite, shall we say? And are there blogs which are what? Self starters? I'm thinking of ConsortiumNews, OpEdNews, and even politicalcortex. Hey, I saw your post again.
And while we're at it, one area which fascinates me are the blogs connected to online MSM pages. Like WP has Slate. I don't know what NYT calls theirs. I guess one thing which is important is the ability to link one's blog to everyone else's blog.
It didn't take blogging to start the round robin effect. I realized when I started with yahoogroups what a member in one group was doing was promoting another group where they were in charge.
By the way. How did I get a hold of you in the first place, mole?


mole333's picture

Muddying things up...

Glad I could clear things up a bit...hope my info was accurate.

There are certainly people who don't take advertising. THey tend to do the blogging thing as more of a hobby. My original newsletter, if you remember, was merely by email and no advertising. I did it as just something to try and hold the left together...or more precisely, hold together the people who had looked to me in 2004 together. But when I switched to blog format, the work load went up a bit, and I decided to try some advertising through Google. Google isn't a bad company (they teamed up with Al Gore's Current TV) and Joy and I can use ANY extra income we can get. But I know some people who refuse to take ads. More power to them.

Liza can speak for herself, but as I understand it, she really wants to make this a self-sustaining business the way Daily Kos is. Or at least enough of a business that she can focus full time on it and she can pay her editors at least a pittiance for our work. Most of us who are blogging here are not independently wealthy, so we need income anywhere we can get it.

The interaction between the MSM and blogs is fascinating. In NYC it is particularly interesting, and there are some folks who are amazed that Liza, Bouldin and myself managed to muscle our way in without the backing of MSM. In fact, in many cases we SURPASSED the influence of MSM blogs with Daily Gotham (the NYC sister site to Culture Kitchen) which is read by many NYC politicians and has a high impact. A friend of mine commented that we had managed to become the Gorilla in the room and match the readership of some newspapers...but make little or no money off it.

I am not sure how we met. I was thinking about that the other day. I do know that you introduced me to Political Cortex and I invited you here. But I think we met somewhere in the vast marshes of Daily Kos and you chose to subscribe to my newsletter. Your comments to me about what I wrote in my newsletter were what inspired me to invite you here. I always found your comments fascinating and instructive.


Margaret Bassett's picture

Blogging is a many-headed question

Politicians comment that the blogsters have to be reckoned with. MSM set up their own blogs. As do candidates.
And some bloggers, like Kos, get to be known beyond their core membership.
It used to be I would see, on a yahoogroup, a reference to another yahoogroup, managed by the one posting the invitation to join. (It may have been the way I found your newsletter, mole, because I joined just one yahoogroup after the 04 election.)
One thing is for sure. Money is involved to publish blogs, just as it is for other media. It's not as hard to come by because the internet doesn't take as much. Still, them that pays, gets.
I notice how the blogs are interested in linking to other blogs. Just as print media have larger corporations they're associated with. Print was given an alert when McClatchey was sold. Even the NYTimes charges for some of their stories. Personally, I use salon.com so much that I fork over a subscription fee. I like places which have reporters. And I am also glad to read those sites which reference other published articles, on or off line.
I think what makes things clear for me is to know whether there is some investigative reporting behind what I read. And if not, then it should be evident that what is being said is analysis or opinion.
This gets back to high school journalism. There's news, feature stories and opinion. And the difference should be clear.
If a person owns a blog, that person has a view point, and if she/he takes in advertising--to me that's just advertising. And I'm a little cranky. I just don't pay much attention to ads. The pols would lose a ton of money if everyone thought like I did. I do, however, believe that it is going too far when TV plays the ads, for free, and consider it news. Analysis, possibly. Opinion, most likely. And demagogery, at times.


mole333's picture

Investigative Journalism

Bloggers as journalists...

The main difference betwen us and "journalists" is, by and large, we don't get paid for what we do (though Liza is starting to do what she can for us!). So we have our day jobs. That makes too much in the way of investigative journalism almost impossible.

And yet...And yet I think we bloggers often do MORE investigation than MSM journalists! Even though they get paid for it, I know I actually talk to scientists and read scientific journals if I am writing about science. MSM doesn't seem to do this. So in that sense I am doing more investigation that they are. There are some issues where I do considerable research. Other times I repeat what I get from a source that is not a common source for Americans (BBC, Guysen Israel News, etc.).

Journalists once did NOT come from a bias. I used to know a pulitzer prize winning media critic who pretty much did extensive research to show that there was really no liberal bias in the media (other than a mild bias regarding abortion issues). He really did his job well, hence the Pulitzer prize. But now every news source has its bias. Here at Culture Kitchen was are honest and open about what our bias is. And we actually recruit some diversity. For the record, we have even recruited libertarians and libertarian Republicans. We WANT diversity of opinions here, though we also admit that we come from a progressive, Civil Libertarian, Democratic bias. We are PROUD of that. We are not like Fox who has a bias that they deny like they are embarassed by it. We have a bias because we have thought it out and find that bias to be reasonable. So we wear it with pride.


Margaret Bassett's picture

The News Hour did a piece on Imus tonight

They have begun to take up a few articles on the media. At first I thought they would not touch this flap. Then, as two columnists, who had been on Imus' show, discussed the situation, I realized they had a lot to inform about the issue. For one, there was a little retribution for Imus' past barbs involving people appearing on the News Hour.
The question boiled down to how many times a person should be forgiven just because he said he's sorry. This was newsworthy to me, because the popular issues of the day don't come often on a hard news program, like the News Hour is.
In another matter, I see Obama is joining Edwards in avoiding a debate on Fox News. I'm beginning to wonder if the Democrats have woke up to the fact that they get used.
On April 3 Salon had an opinion piece on how Fox has a way of slanting issues even without snubbing the Democrats overtly. In this case, it was to show how they put Harold Ford and Rick Santorum on staff. Two losers in the election, but few Democratic losses in comparison to Republican. There's a long list of folks mentioned. Good article, worth reading.


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