i don't need Baby Jane

i came across the FDL post and thought, what the hell, i'll post a comment. i never post comments in the "big" blogs because there are usually hundreds, and most of them aren't really worth reading. but Jane Hamsher was replying to a number of them in her post on Liza, so i gave it a try:

i’m not exactly sure why this post is necessary. as it happens, Liza can actually be reached and spoken to personally. imagine. some people, when attacked in a manner they think unfair, by someone who is actually seeking the same goals (2 minutes at her website proves that), would keep it private. in the spirit of seeking a better community, they’d find out what brought on the original attack and try to find a positive resolution. you don’t indicate you tried that; you don’t approve of talking to people first? of privately making your points and giving her a chance to retract? you may be in the right in terms of the access you give to a diverse group of writers, but this post is pure 8th grade. very disappointing.

but i’m sure the neocon lurkers enjoyed it.

and Jane deemed it worthy of this reply:

You apply a yardstick to one you don’t apply to the other. Liza didn’t even bother to verify the factual accuracy of her assertions, let alone privately communicate her concerns.

Our neocon lurkers no doubt recognize themselves in your logic.

to which my final reply was:

ah, i get it: “she did it, so i’ll do it, too.”

and that's the gist of it in FDL re: Liza. Jane Hamsher, blogging superstar, knows nothing about Liza, less than i do (and i know little), but she deems her worthy of national attack. she's so dedicated to this attack, she's still replying into the 400s. wow.

i don't know if she is full of herself, a true believer, or really thinks Liza is doing harm to the cause. i don't know her at all, but i'm not going to waste my time with FDL anymore. her reply to me just is too immature. and her sycophantic commenters are pretty awaful, too; one guy went to a lot of trouble to prove, in a phony academic style, what a loser Liza is. i know two things about Liza: she has been involved in the things she critiqued in her original post; and she's beloved of Lynn, and that's good enough for me.

but mostly, Jane Hamsher is acting like a child. we have enough of that in DC without lefties making it worse.


t.a.'s picture



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liza's picture

i had no idea she was deep into the comments section

i find it not just odd but tacky. what with the guy's alleged demographics (if you know what i mean), this is her macaca or sambo moment.

as terrance has been saying, it's a good thing. there's a record of who really is out there calling themselves progressives.


Soylent Green's picture

Lookit me, lookit me, it's all about me!!!!!

I love blogs when they stay on message. I hate blogs when the people who run them inevitably use the internet to prose, preen and "show their ass", like granma used to say, and in that way stray from the bigger topic at hand. Liza's hand was tipped when she bitched that *she* wasn't invited to slurp cocktail weiners with a celebrity. Pathetic. And ugly. Jane, (and John Aravosis, for that matter) make me CRINGE everytime they write vanity posts crowing over their latest, greatest accomplishments...nothing like tooting your own horn. Well, actually, nothing more offputting. I could do without the souvenir pics of celebrities and vacation spots as well, to tell the truth.


t.a.'s picture

one thing a successful

one thing a successful writer learns, whether that success is local in a small town or national, is they represent the thoughts and feelings of their readers. i am constantly congratulated for my letters to the local paper; read by a few thousand people, the words strike a chord with friends and neighbors. i have the ability to use words to say what others around me are thinking and feeling. i never write with that in mind; it's just a fact of my life that i am in tune with so many people here in Corvallis.

Liza & Lorraine and a number of the writers here at CK are in that same position. the website is doing well because the writers here speak for their readers. i don't mean this as in "preaching to the choir" (although any successful advocacy writing will always have a lot of that gong on). when Liza discusses the activities she's involved in, or shares her observations on events surrounding her life, it's not a solipsistic exercise. it's what writers do. no, she doesn't have the audience Jane has (who also speaks for many), but she dos have a readership because there's a connection that's real and legit.

to be a good writer, you have to have a certain arrogance. actually, a shitload of arrogance. you have to believe that when you sit down and the keyboard and start poking at the keys — and later, when hit the Submit button — that your words actually matter. i may have an audience of two or one or none here; but i persevere regardless. Liza is not being pathetic to critique the blog gathering; she's representing a perspective, a small piece of the world shared by herself and a number of others. she's right to report on this view; she has a duty, as a writer, to do this.

which is why Jane, who has had the good fortune to see FDL grow from a hopeful exercise on Blogger to a nationally recongized news & infotainment site, was so wrong to attack Liza as she did. underlying her original post was the idea that she, in possession of Truth and Accuracy, Must Tell Poor Liza How Very Wrong She Was. rather than take a positive approach — private message, explanatory post sans snottiness — she deigned to piss all over Liza. and then she defended herself by blaming Liza for starting.

so yes, blogs do become about the writers. i don't recall Liza ever saying she wouldn't be a major player in the narrative. i, for one, dig it. her life is so different from mine; she can write about herself all day, and i'll be learning all kinds of new things. most of my posts to Blue Oregon are about me me me — and they work. they generate comment and thought and productive conversation. the real sin is not to write about yourself; it's to write about nothing.


ding7777's picture

Liza attacks Jane publicly

Liza attacks Jane publicly for being white and somehow this is Jane's fault?

Liza attacks Jane publicaly for the false makeup of Peter's list and this is somehow Jane's fault?

Liza attacks Jane publicly(and falsely) for not having Black and Latino posters and this is somehow Jane's fault?


liza's picture

That's not accurate

Instead of appointing herself as the voice of colored people in Connecticut and gone ahead posting a Lieberman in black face, she could have gotten black and latino leaders from Connecticut andagainst Lieberman on her blog and given them a platform to speak for themselves.

Robustly making a point about an issue is not attacking. I wrote that to Peter Daou and the DailyKos crowd there were no black bloggers in Harlem or NYC and that for all of us, that's a problem.


ding7777's picture

Let's take the Connecticut

Let's take the Connecticut point.

1. The blackface was wrong - Jane apologized.

2. Jane was emailing Steve Gilliard for feedback re black issues - too bad she didn't ask about the blackface. But then again, Steve uses blackface too...

3.CTBob is black and Jane did give him a the FDL platform during the Lamont primary.

4. Now here's a question for you - how many Connecticut black bloggers showed up at Lamont headquaters willing to blog for Lamont?

The Peter Daou point.: There were 19 bloggers at the lunch - you singled Jane out for Peter's failure (that's an attack)

Now on to better things:
I think you have a valid point about Clinton trying to co-op the bloggers for Hillary - I hope you write more about that.


liza's picture

Oh ... and show me where did I ever say

That she had no black contributors on her site?


ding7777's picture

My apologies - I misread you

My apologies - I misread you when you said Jane did not give Connecticut Black/Latino bloggers a platflorm to mean Jane did not give Black/Latino bloggers a platform. Again, I'm sorry.


pops's picture

At Last!

This post wouldn't load for me all morning, but at long last it's here!

I don't get Jane Hamscher. To me she's to blogging what the daily Zippy strip is to million of comics readers every day - something you just look at and shake your head. She's not saying anything that you couldn't find somewhere else.


liza's picture

But it's a woman saying and that's

diversity to some in the blogosphere. And I am not being sarcastic, btw.


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